sofa's blog

Restrictions

posted by sofa, Dec 15, 2005 10:52 PM — 30 comments

There has been many an argument on restrictions being put on photos, lately, in the forums (mostly the general chat). The arguments have gotten quite heated, words have been flung (okay, by me). I thought it would be a good idea if I expressed my true feelings on the subject.

First of all, I think restrictions are a great idea. Giving the photographer the choice to have people contact and/or credit them when downloading their photo, without having to put it in every photo's description is great.

Now, I use restrictions myself, on some of my portraits. Why? Because the "models" like to know where their photos end up, and I want them to know (its also my little way of twisting people's arms, and getting them to tell me where they are using my photos). But I put restrictions ONLY on portraits, and nothing else.

I can understand why people put restrictions on all of their photos. That doesn't mean that I think they should, though. Perhaps they should be looking into joining SXP, and selling their crop, rather than making it difficult for others. However, I think that if Peter made the option to add restrictions to their photos it should be used, and however people see fit.

I don't like others complaining about someone's choice to put restrictions on their photos. And to further their argument by complaining about others having an opposing opinion, and to respect their's is just pathetic. I understand that the world is full of people with different ideals. But we should be tolerant of other's decisions, and grow up, just a little.

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1. posted by hilaryaq, Dec 16, 2005 12:41 AM

Yeah.. I suppose my bone of contention is that there are SOOO many posts on the same thing.. say it once, but don't nag!! Maybe having brought it up they will be more aware of how much they really are all talking about it in the same place that really isn't even reaching the people they are talking about.. it's reaching us people who already know ALL about it..*phew!*
Onwards and Upwards! :)


2. posted by Jy, Dec 16, 2005 1:05 AM

great... that's it. I can understand why people want to know where there pictures are. And that they won't be used for things that they won't made there pictures. i can only say.. all pictures i download here and modifiy will be on www.br-worx.de (sry german) and i put on all picutes where i got theme from, because i don't have to get some pisitiv response from anyone for thinks i don't made... so it's more then ok that people don't give there pictures away without to know where they will be...



3. posted by kinderkram, Dec 16, 2005 2:43 PM

Yet another blog 'bout that issue?
Well ... good idea to express your "true feelings" now.



4. posted by leonbidon, Dec 16, 2005 5:53 PM

Great idea to start this blog, it can only make the restrictionalists think more about the subject. And while they are thinking they might include in there conclusion the question if these restrictions are a good thing for this side. Putting restrictions on picturess the way these restrictions were intented, to protect vulnerable subjects, has now way past this point. Just take of them blinkers and ask yourself if this is the way SXC should go. Two out of three newcomers apply restrictions, and this number is increasing steadily. This is a very dangerous tendency and if it is not countred it could well mean a certain dead for this beautiful site. A site that ones started with one great basic idea: SHARING.


5. posted by Gerbera, Dec 16, 2005 6:10 PM

Well, Sofa, when I first uploaded pictures I put restrictions on them because I wanted to know where my pictures ended up (and tickle my ego too) but after reading a discussion on the forum I now have no restrictions on my pictures. So, it is my opinion that it is a good thing to discuss this issue every now and then.


6. posted by sofa, Dec 17, 2005 3:17 AM

@5... Every now and then, fine. Discuss, fine. Argue to the point that people can't accept other's views, not fine.

I can accept people believing that restrictions should not be put on photos. I can not deal with these people complaining constantly about other people using restrictions. And when someone goes so far to accuse another of not accepting their opinion is quite rash, when they, in the first place, couldn't accept another's choice to use restrictions.

And if so many people joined the site, added restrictions, then removed them later, who is to say that these new comers wont? I had restrictions on all my photos at one point, and now just my portraits. That came from NO forum discussion, it was a personal decision that I made on my own.

I have my own mind, my own opinion, and no one is going to change it. I'm done discussing this topic with everyone, I don't think I should feel as though I am on of the complainers, by whining about another's inability to shut their mouth (or stop typing).


7. posted by kinderkram, Dec 17, 2005 12:40 PM

I had restrictions on all my photos at one point, and now just my portraits.

So, what made you change your mind?

That came from NO forum discussion, it was a personal decision that I made on my own.

What makes you so sure, you weren't influenced by the ongoing discussions?

I have my own mind, my own opinion, and no one is going to change it.

Aha ...

I'm done discussing this topic...

So why did you open up another blog on this issue? Oh, I forgot: you want to let everyone know, that restrictions are a great idea...


8. posted by sofa, Dec 17, 2005 3:16 PM

Norbert, I expected more from you, rather than bad mouthing my opinion.

I made the blog as a final rant for myself.

And yes, I'm sure it came from no forum discussion because restrictions havn't been discussed like they are right now, before. That, and I havn't always been a part of the forums.

Why are you laughing at me for having my own mind? If I didn't I would be going along with you're opinion, wouldn't I?

I'm stating my opinion, whether you want to believe it or not. When you learn to be passive about someone having a different opinion than your own, let me know. Until then, I think you need to grow up a little.


9. posted by hilaryaq, Dec 17, 2005 3:22 PM

N'ya.. Sofa, it's your blog, you can talk about whatever you want on your blog, thats the whole point of it.. and it's much better to let off steam here than in the forums where it gets even more heated, so you have done exacty the right thing.. and thankfully the constant nagging to the already converted has ceased for now in the forum and we are actually talking about our photography!
:D


10. posted by sofa, Dec 17, 2005 3:27 PM

Hilary, I'm actually quite shocked... I'm suprised that those who complain about the SXP crew being childish are the ones who are complaining here. I'm extremely disappointed, especially in certain people, who I thought were more mature than they are acting.

I'm still really pissed off. And you're right, I'm trying to keep it out of the forums, which I'm proud of!

Thanks =-)


11. posted by kinderkram, Dec 17, 2005 4:57 PM

Sofa, expect what you want. But did you see ME starting a forum thread or a ranting blog about the issue lately? No. You and Hilary did.

Please read post #91 here: http://www.sxc.hu/forum.phtml?f=showtopic&n=341&p=5
That was my opinion two years ago and it is still now!

Restrictions have always been and will always be an issue. And I strongly support those who argue against the misuse of restrictions, i.e. by asking for written permissions on every-day-shots. If this trend will continue, it'll ruin the best part of SXC: the spirit of free sharing and the usefulness for designers with deadlines.

Nothing more - nothing less.

Have a nice weekend!


12. posted by kinderkram, Dec 17, 2005 6:16 PM

btw: I didn't laugh about your opinions. "Aha..." is a term we use in Germany, similiar to "well, then...", spiced with a good portion of disbelief.


I got just one thing to add to my last post:

You really can't expect members to sit there and keep still, after the Terms of Use and the restrictions have changed in SXC version6. Discussions were the base, why Peter changed the Terms after the release and discussions made him take the watermarks off.


13. posted by sofa, Dec 17, 2005 7:47 PM

I can understand why people put restrictions on all of their photos. That doesn't mean that I think they should, though.


Did you even read that? I guess even after posting this blog you still don't understand. And for your info, I didn't START any forum discussion, just this blog.

If people want to use restrictions and Peter is alright with it, then there is nothing you can do to change it, other than complain, which is just annoying and makes you seem like you're a lot younger than you really are.

The highest restrictions at sxc say: "you can have it, but you'll have to ask."


If this trend will continue, it'll ruin the best part of SXC: the spirit of free sharing and the usefulness for designers with deadlines.


You just said two different things.

And if designers don't want to wait for replies, they can use that neat little feature that Peter added to the search engine, or pay for photos. They are lucky there are sites on the net like this at all, and this one is still pretty awesome, even with restrictions.

Why don't you just worry about yourself, rather than complaining about others. I don't think you realise how immature this is making you seem, at least in my eyes. Lead by example, not whining.

(I realise you weren't whining in post #91, in the link that you provided, but you are now)


14. posted by hilaryaq, Dec 17, 2005 8:03 PM

But did you see ME starting a forum thread or a ranting blog about the issue lately? No. You and Hilary did.

Who ever said I have to do what you would do?? I got sick of hearing about 'the best thing for the site'... and I said so... and in fact, a helluva lot of people feel the same way.. Esther said it's the reason why she doesn't post to the forum anymore.. myself and Maffu and Sofa feel the same way.. at one stage this week there was a front page blog, and 5 topics started by different members on the same subject AND one member took it upon himself to SPAM all the members with restrictions with an email that was pretty damn scary and more or less incomprehensible.
It got totally out of hand, and I will stand up for any member who has restrictions for good reason, and I will still welcome those that dont until the day Peter sees fit to remove them all...
All I want is for the people I enjoyed chatting to to come back.. and this mob mentality is the reason they are not here.. and I understand why because I'm sick of it too.. and I have every right to say so. I don't want anyone ostracised from the group... if you want to make a petition then go and do something constructive and send it to Peter... but it does NOT belong in the general chat forum... ALL members are welcome to that forum, NOT the select few...
I respect that you have been here for a long time, so why not get this issue sorted once and for all, this strategy is not getting your cause anywhere but causing friction...


15. posted by slonecker, Dec 17, 2005 8:52 PM

This blog and the comments it contains deserves a thoughful, measured and courteous response.

Until then I ask you to keep the following in mind:

SXC is a subsidiary of Dream Interactive and is run as a business that makes money through the sale of ads. Dream Interactive's principal concern is always "what is best for the site" in order in try and increase ad revenue. No revenue, no site. It's that simple.





16. posted by sofa, Dec 17, 2005 9:23 PM

@15... Courtesy would be nice. But revenue is not going to come to the site if the forum is in shambles. So long as people are whining and complaining, and being rude the numbers will continue to decrease.

So everyone knows, saints are not those who think highly of themselves. You are doing no service by whining because something isn't going your way. And don't say that is what Hilary, Maffu, any of the people have left, or I are doing - we all have our own opinions, we are simply tired of all your critiquing of anything besides photos. If you feel you have an important or interseting contribution to make, make it in a pleasing manner, not an accusing one.


17. posted by kinderkram, Dec 17, 2005 10:57 PM

#13: There are some hugh differences between now and 2 years ago: there was NO request form for written permissions. You could view the fullsize and decide, whether you use it or not.

Usage wasn't restricted to PUBLIC use, but for COMMERCIAL use only. You didn't have to contact the artist BEFORE you used the photo.
And what's the major concern: only about 25-30% of the images were restricted. Now it looks like the quota's turn around.

And hey ... I'm not whining. I just tell you my "true feelings". ;-)


18. posted by kinderkram, Dec 17, 2005 11:24 PM

#14: You may have noticed, that Peter signed that RFSXC blog as one of the first. And you may have noticed, that it was him, who put that particular blog onto the frontpage and it's still there. Ever asked yourself, why?

I do agree, that some members (especially that spammer) went much to far. And as a sidenote: if I was in Peters place, I would have kicked that guy.

But that's for sure: you will never stop complaints about the restriction issue, you will never stop the whining about rejections, "once and for all".
Especially not by drawing a line between "us and them". But that's what you did by announcing a socalled "pressure group".

I've formed an anti 'the anti restriction posse' rebel splinter group!


Where did I read that? ;-)

btw: since day one of my appearence on SXC, I made a lot of suggestions to (in my eyes) bring the site forth. Some were heard, some were not...

And if you read my posts in Mikes thread (the "R" report) carefully, I was trying to get the steam out of the discussion.
Therefor, I didn't use words like "sick", "pissed", "shut up", as they only heaten up the steam. ;-)


19. posted by sofa, Dec 17, 2005 11:29 PM

As of post #3 in my blog, you were whining. Don't worry though, you aren't the only one, Slonecker is too.

And I still think you should worry more about yourself than others regardless of changes in the Terms of Use. You don't need to be critical of other's views and expect them to conform with your's, its not going to happen, so just get used to it.

(I'm shrugging, not ranting)


20. posted by slonecker, Dec 17, 2005 11:38 PM

16...No response has even been made and ctitical comments have already entered this blog. Perhaps this is not the place to engage in a discussion of the issue where facts should be incorporated as an important element into the discussion.


21. posted by slonecker, Dec 17, 2005 11:46 PM

I just saw #19. I see no useful purpose to be served in trying to debate so important an issue with those who refuse to consider the pros and cons with an open mind. Every comment that has been made by persons who believe that restrictions undermine the principles upon which this site was founded are able to point to specific, independently verifiable facts that support their belief. Thus far, no counterpart comments have been presneted that are backed up by any facts lending credence to the counterpart position.

I will defer my comments until such time as someone who believes to the contrary is willing and able to engage in a meaningful debate.


22. posted by sofa, Dec 18, 2005 12:35 AM

I'm not giving any fact for a reason, their are none so long as you have a closed mind. Slonecker, you are one who DOES NOT accept that other's have different beliefs than you. There is no point in arguing with you... but here goes. This is the last time I am saying this, so pay attention now...

A) There are restrictions
B) I don't like people putting restrictions on ALL their photos, I find their is no point.
C) Your complaining is getting annoying, almost to the point that I feel like swearing.
D) People do not have to download restricted photos.
E) Stop whining about others, and worry about yourself. Lead by example. You AREN'T setting a good example for the site. Your whining everywhere will really turn people off from joining, especially if they read the forums a bit before joining. If anything, stopping this will help.

I am angry with your behavior, not that you have a problem with restrictions. You can have a problem with them if you like, I really don't care, but you need to stop bothering us about it. We get the point, you don't like them, we don't need to hear it anymore.


23. posted by hilaryaq, Dec 18, 2005 2:56 AM

I've formed an anti 'the anti restriction posse' rebel splinter group!

Haahaahaa!! ;D Well I don't think that's a secret seeing as I posted invites in the forum here.. which was a joke, which I stated many times in that thread lest people think I was serious..
I don't care whether Peter joined your group or not, or whether he put that blog on the front page..
What I do care about is that the majority of the members here spend their time cribbing about something, and it is excluding other members from being welcome to the forum, and it is stopping people from posting to the forum because it is ALL the time..
Haahaahaa, IM the one drawing a line between 'us and them', quite the opposite, I just want everyone to be welcome and have a nice atmosphere here.
I am entitled to feel how I feel about it.... Norbert.. if it makes you feel any better.. I don't know how much longer I can last in this forum anyway if it continues as is so don't worry about it...


24. posted by sofa, Dec 18, 2005 3:03 AM

@23! No! Don't give up! Fight! Thats what I'm TRYING to do... at this point I'm just trying to get people to accept other's views. It really has to be done, especially in a community as diverse as this.


25. posted by hilaryaq, Dec 18, 2005 3:34 AM

Yeah.. I guess.. I just don't think the whinging will ever really stop.. there's a quick break, like right now because well, I and others said we would like a bit of a break from it.... but it'll start up again soon once this blows over.. and well, there's more of them, and they post more often, so I might just end up not wanting to post to the forum ad drift away!! I've done that once already.. so.. ech, we'll see what happens.. but constant fighting ain't my cup of tea, there's enough of that in 'real life'! :D


26. posted by sofa, Dec 18, 2005 2:14 PM

Well, the disappointing part is: the older members are the ones whining... I wont even go into names, but maybe its the generation gap.


27. posted by hilaryaq, Dec 18, 2005 2:39 PM

Ok, this must be a good analogy. I love carpets, and I think it's great that people sell carpets.. it takes all the shopping grief out of it for the consumer. But if I was homeless, and a guy kept trying to sell me a carpet, I would tell him, I dont need a carpet, I have no house.
Lets say he wore me down everyday, so eventually I buy a carpet just to get him to stop calling... and I think surely thats the end of it. And the next day the guy calls back still trying to sell me carpet.. and every day after that! Thats how I feel! I feel like when I step into that forum, I'm being sold something I've already bought.. and it is really really irritating.... LOL!


28. posted by kinderkram, Dec 18, 2005 3:32 PM

#27: I never buy anything at the door! ;-)


btw: No need to FIGHT, ladies...
I SURRENDER!


29. posted by sofa, Dec 18, 2005 4:46 PM

Hahaha... whoa... K well, you aren't so much the problem Norbert. It seems you just lost your temper, I was definately not expecting that, and I was/am a little disappointed.

And Hilary, that is how I feel too. Everyone just keeps complaining. Its getting old, and we've all heard it before. And I think Peter gets it now, as he HAS done something to help already, but restrictions are always going to be a part of this site.


30. posted by leonbidon, Dec 18, 2005 4:49 PM

@18 "I do agree, that some members (especially that spammer) went much to far. And as a sidenote: if I was in Peters place, I would have kicked that guy."

Are you refering to me or "Kevinzim"?

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